Imagine if there were a legion of bloggers, vloggers and podcasters in an affiliate program that would routinely talk about your business and promote your products and services.
Think about how your business might benefit if there were hundreds of articles and resources on other people’s sites, talking about your business and sending you referral traffic, leads and sales.
Would that help your business and grow your bottom line?
If you’re anything like me, you’ve probably signed up for more than a few affiliate programs so you know how it works. You get a unique tracking link for a business and earn referrals and commissions on anyone who uses that link to purchase. But what if you want affiliates of your own? How do you get started? How can you make sure that your affiliate program is actually worth the effort.
That’s why I’m talking to a real expert on affiliate programs and partnerships, Paddy McGill.
We talked in our last episode about strategic partnerships and explored how partnering with other brands can give your business an exponential growth potential. We talked about how every business has the same three choices for growth: organic growth through normal sales and marketing, growth through acquisition, and growth through partnership.
The cool thing about partnerships is that there are many different kinds. While we focused on brand partnerships last time, this episode we’re exploring how you can leverage other people at scale as partners to talk about and promote your business. Affiliates.
Welcome to Partnership Unpacked, where I selfishly use this time to pick the brains of experts at strategic partnerships, channel programs, affiliates, influencer marketing, and relationship building… oh, and you get to learn too!
I’m Mike Allton, Head of Strategic Partnerships at Agorapulse, and in today’s episode, we’re diving deep into the nuts and bolts of a successful affiliate program. All it takes to start an affiliate program is to pop in a WordPress plugin. But like most things in life, true longterm success is going to require vision and strategy and proper execution of tactics, and I’ve brought on a terrific guest to help sort us out.
I’m here today with the amazing Paddy McGill. Paddy is an Affiliate and Partnership consultant with over 10 years experience in the industry, his mission is to help Entrepreneurs and SaaS businesses land their first lead or revenue generating partnership within 30 days. I had the pleasure of meeting Paddy for the first time years ago at a dinner hosted by Thinkific, and have since partnered with him on numerous projects for a variety of brands. Please welcome Paddy McGill to Partnership Unpacked!
Today Paddy helps us work through:
- How do you recommend businesses structure their affiliate program?
- What do you recommend businesses look for when considering new affiliates? Do you typically vette new affiliates in any particular way?
- When it comes to providing affiliates custom graphics and assets and setting up promotional campaigns, what have you seen work the best? Do you have any recommendations?
- What have been some of the worst affiliate program mistakes or oversights you’ve seen that businesses should avoid?
- Who has the best B2B affiliate program you’re aware of, and why?
- What do you think more B2B business affiliate programs should be doing?
- Recommended Affiliate Program Tools
Learn more about Paddy McGill:
Resources & Brands mentioned in the episode:
- Brand Verity
- Agorapulse Partner Program
- Affiliate WP
Full Transcript of this episode of Partnership Unpacked[00:00:00] Mike Allton: We talked last time about strategic partnerships and exploring how partnering with other brands can give your business an exponential growth potential. We talked about how every business has the same three choices for growth, organic growth through normal sales and marketing, growth through acquisition and growth through partnership.
The cool thing about partnerships is that there are many different kinds. While we focused on brand partnerships last time, this episode, we’re exploring how you can leverage other people at scale as partners to talk about and promote your business. Affiliates, welcome to Partnership on Pat, where I selfishly use this time to pick the brains of experts at strategic partnerships, channel programs, affiliates, influencer marketing in relationship building.
Oh, and you get to learn too. We’re Live Tuesday stays on LinkedIn and make sure you follow me on LinkedIn so you won’t miss any of these terrific interviews over the coming weeks. I’ll be talking to folks from Lipson SM Rush e Moore, and be sure to check out our first interview with Mark Brigman from Partnernomics.
I’m Mike Alton, head of Strategic Partnerships at a Gore Balls, and in today’s episode, we’re diving deep into the nuts and bolts of a successful affiliate program. All it takes to Sergeant affiliate program is to pop in a WordPress plugin. But like most things in life, true long-term success is gonna require vision and strategy and proper execution of tactics.
And I brought on a terrific guest to help us sort us out. I’m here today with the amazing Paddy McGill. Paddy’s an affiliate and partnership consultant with over 10 years experience in the industry. His mission is to help entrepreneurs and SaaS businesses lend their first leader revenue generating partnership within 30 days.
And I had the pleasure of meeting Paddy for the first time years ago at a dinner hosted by Thinkific and have since partnered with him on numerous projects for a variety of brands. Please welcome Paddy McGill to partnership. How you doing Paddy?[00:02:18] Paddy McGill: I’m doing great. Mike, thank you so much for having me here and your intro, your voice, you definitely have like a great voice for podcasting, , and also for being a host.
Thank you so much, mate, for being.[00:02:29] Mike Allton: Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Hey, you’re welcome. I’ll turn that into an ad for the podcast when it comes up. [00:02:35] Paddy McGill: I’ve always been told I’ve got for radio, so. It’s a brilliant, likewise . [00:02:40] Mike Allton: Yeah. So it’s so great to have you. Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and the work you’re doing these days? [00:02:45] Paddy McGill: Yeah. Great. Thank you, Mike. So my name’s Paddy McGill and I’m a partnership and affiliate marketing consultant. Uh, currently I’m working with team over at Restream, which is a live streaming platform that lets you go live across 30 different social media destinations at the same time. And my background prior to joining Restream was actually working over at Thinkific, which is an online course platform, helped grow their affiliate program to number one in the education category over on share sale.
And then prior to that I’ve worked over at an affiliate net market network. I’ve worked at an agency, I’ve actually worked as an affiliate myself. So I’ve pretty much done the four sides of, I guess like the main four sides of affiliate marketing. Brand agency as an affiliate and a network. So I’ve done pretty much done it all over the last 10 years.
I’ve got, definitely got the wrinkles to show for it and the gray hair. But yeah, I’ve done pretty much everything. But working with brands now is definitely the thing that I enjoyed the most. Doing[00:03:36] Mike Allton: awesome and all while juggling a newborn. [00:03:39] Paddy McGill: That’s right. . That’s right, that’s right. I, I can’t take all the credit for that.
My wife is doing an amazing job at the moment, but when I get the time to spend some time with Theo and give my wife a break, then yeah, I’m there all time as well. But you know, there’s one of these, these benefits working in a job like this. You know, you get to and do you know working clients that reached in you?
You get to, I can. Dip in, dip out quickly. Go check and make sure things are right when you’re, you work from home, but be very different involves work, working in a, in an office or working on a, on a building site or something like that in, in the trades.[00:04:11] Mike Allton: I completely understand. Yeah. I’ve been working from home.
Gosh, over a decade and it’s a real blessing to be able to have that convenience and accessibility.[00:04:20] Paddy McGill: Well, you telling me about what you’ve got, I dunno if, if anyone, if anyone’s listening to this as well, maybe on like a repurposed version on a, on a podcast, but Mike’s got an amazing like, background set up.
In his current studio and he was telling me we’ve been bonding actually quite a lot over our love for wolfing sci-fi. So he was sending me like some of the the cool knickknacks he’s got there just off camera. But yeah, we’ll talk about that maybe another day, Mike. Maybe we’ll do a show into that.[00:04:44] Mike Allton: Yeah, that’s actually one of my personal branding.
Tactics that I’ve been known for is my love for Star Wars, and I just, I casually fit into my background. I casually fitted into my content and conversations on social. It was something I decided almost two decades ago, and it works. It’s an easy thing to talk about. Yes. People see the Stormtrooper head behind me and they’re like, oh, okay.
He likes Star Wars. We can talk about that, right?[00:05:07] Paddy McGill: It’s a great icebreaker. [00:05:09] Mike Allton: So let’s talk affiliates. Paddy, let’s, and let’s start, let’s start high level. So if someone’s listening and perhaps hasn’t. An affiliate program before, what would you suggest are the most important initial considerations? [00:05:22] Paddy McGill: Okay. I think the number one thing that people should consider is that your, your site or your product has to be making sales at the moment.
And this doesn’t matter if it, if you are a SaaS business, if you’re an e-commerce site, if you’re an online course creator, if you’re, you know, if you’re a digital entrepreneur selling, uh, you know, any other type of digital product. Your product must be making sales. The mistake that I see a lot of people make is that they will create a product and then see affiliates as like another channel that needs to be executed on straight away.
You know, we set up our seo, we set up our page search, that’s why our paid ads and we set up our affiliates. It’s like affiliates is, is like the cherry on top of a cake. So you’ve gotta get your base like the base of the cake. The chocolatey base has gotta be set up properly. You’ve gotta have your slices of seo.
Paid ads and everything else, all all done first, and then the affiliates is the cherry on top because affiliates only wanna promote products that are actually making sales, that’s gonna make, that’s gonna make themselves, because you know, they are an extension of your marketing team and they’re doing a lot of the hard work.
You know, either writing content for you, talking about you to their network, even promoting them, promoting you to their list, which is a big deal. You know, if someone’s taking the time to do that, they’re transferring a lot of. And saying to the audience, no, you should definitely believe in, you know, this business and what it stands for.
So yeah, make sure you, you are able to sell your product first and that you have a sales funnel, at least one sales funnel that is working and is refined. Doesn’t have to be perfect. You know, sales funnels. Sales funnels, they’ll be up and down from time to time. But it’s important that you actually, you know, spend that time and making sure your, your product, uh, is selling and or you validate.[00:07:00] Mike Allton: That is such a huge point because it’s critical that businesses understand affiliates, aren’t sales representatives, right? Mm-hmm. , they’re not going to actually sell your product. That’s on you as the business owner. The affiliate can only refer people and offer their recommendations and send you traffic, but you know, it’s like the quarterback, you know, they’re, they’re throwing you the ball.
I’m gonna do a sports metaphor. They’re , they’re passing, passing you the ball. It’s traffic, but it’s the wide receiver. It’s up to you to catch it and take it across the goal line. You know, the quarterback can’t do it all. So I love that point. Very important. If you’re just tuning in, we’re talking about affiliate program.
And how to make sure all the time you invest in setting up a program, creating assets and vetting potential affiliates isn’t a waste of time. And I’m talking to Paddy McGill, partnership and affiliate program consultant to multiple brands and businesses. Now, Paddy. How do you recommend businesses actually structure their affiliate programs?
How do you recommend businesses structure their affiliate program?[00:07:55] Paddy McGill: I think the first thing is to actually look at what you can afford as, as a brand, as a business. What is it that you can afford to pay in affiliate and how do you want to pay them? Because if you’re SaaS, for example, you could be paying on a lead, for example, if you are a, if you’re someone providing a, coming back to like my old affiliate network days, if you’re working in solar panels, for example, I had a guy who’s paying two.
Pounds. Pounds, actually. Crazy amount of money. 200 pounds per lead of a of five fields filled in on a form. He would pay $200 once that’s been validated. So you’ve gotta figure out one, how is your sale being done, obviously. So that goes back to what we were saying before, like how is your sale being made and then what can you actually afford to pay that person?
And again, like it really depends on the industry. But if we’re talking like maybe like SaaS, typically you’re looking at a recurring revenue model is the, for me is the best way to do it. It’s the most the way to keep yourself most competitive in the market. And you know, with affiliate programs in general, you can still have room for other.
Other types of bonuses and other like little, little wins that you can give your affiliates. So you know, if they generate X number of sales or if they generate X number of thousand dollars for the month, you can then reward ’em with something different. But I would say it goes back to how do you want to pay them?
And then start thinking about what you can actually afford. And then this is where you take the total cost, like pretty much everything. Think of absolutely everything you are doing to drive. That sale and look at your cost per cost per lead, or your cost per acquisition or your cac, and generally like that’s a good indication of what you could potentially pay out.
So I would say look at your CAC. Maybe do like one third of that as an affiliate commission or whatever the payment is you wanna give to your affiliate.[00:09:36] Mike Allton: That’s super interesting. One third of CAC, I’ve… [00:09:38] Paddy McGill: that’s not the golden rule. It’s like just generally what I’ve seen in most places, but obviously things might very dependent. [00:09:45] Mike Allton: Yeah. This is, this is why I’m bringing you on because I have been an affiliate marketer. For a long time, for probably a decade, ever since I started The Social Media Hat 10 years ago. You know, so I’ve had that affiliate relationship with many different brands. I’ve never done the math Right, to look at, yeah.
What I’ve been offered as a commission, just like, okay, that sounds okay to me. Basically very anecdotal. So I had no concept of a guideline or, or, or, I mean, I know you, like you said, it’s not a golden rule, but still that’s a, that’s a really interesting benchmark.[00:10:18] Paddy McGill: It’s very similar to like doing what you would do for paid ads, you know, what can you afford to pay to get that paid, like to on, on paid ads to get that sale or lead across the line?
It’s very, it’s a very similar thing when I was at Thinkific, so I can’t give you numbers, but typically what we were doing for paid ads, Similar issue in line with what we’re doing with the affiliate stuff for paid accounts. So like, it works, but again, it’s always gonna depend on who you are, what your industry is.
But I’ll also say like, once you get to that place, it’s very important to look at the competition. Now, obviously, you know, get obsessed and just like, you know, worry about them. You gotta do, you gotta, you gotta, like a race horse, you gotta have your blinks on. You’ve gotta go forward and, and worry about your own stuff.
But it’s good to know what your other competitors are doing in the market. So if you know, for example, Everyone is paying 5% commission. You either have to have something absolutely spectacular that goes beyond just commissions to really attract an affiliate that might be looking at, Hmm, well I’ve got this traffic of, let’s say, of like social media markers.
Everyone’s paying 5% commission. These guys are paying, paying 20. That’s probably gonna be a no. And that’s gonna be very hard to attract someone in at the first point for them to go take a deeper look at what your program’s about. So you’ve gotta make sure at least it’s competitive. And then what else can you do on top of that to make it more appealing?
So for me, I think it’s, it comes down to a few things, like being able to communicate quickly with your, with your partners, being able to, obviously, Make it easy for them to get paid. So there’s a couple of like affiliate networks and tracking platforms that I, I personally recommend to people. They make it way easy for me, making sure to get paid quickly, giving ’em access to resources and.
I don’t wanna say like spoon feed, but actually no, I’m just gonna say that spoon, almost like spoon feed the, give ’em absolutely everything that they need and almost like no excuse where they can’t go out and promote their product and then just stay and then stay in touch and give them that again, give ’em access to regular, uh, content plans.[00:12:13] Mike Allton: So that’s basically it. That’s it. Yeah. And you over. Yeah. And on that note, you know, when you’re providing affiliates with, with custom graphics and assets and, and setting up. Promotional campaigns, what have you seen work best? Do you have any specific recommendations?
When it comes to providing affiliates custom graphics and assets and setting up promotional campaigns, what have you seen work the best? Do you have any recommendations?[00:12:27] Paddy McGill: Yeah, definitely. So I think, you know, having standard IAB banner ads sizes, having just like a bank of those for people to come in and promote.
Cause some people just like having a, they’ll have a website and then they’ll just want the banner on their site and that’s it. They don’t really wanna do anything else. They just want. They just actually just wanna drop in the link and off they go. Some people want access maybe to like a sales webinar if you’re working in SaaS.
This is very, very, this is a very good way of generating these and sales. So when I was at Thinkific, we had like a, an automated webinar that we would send traffic to. And then maybe like once a month, me and then, or maybe Aaron and other people within the team, we would jump on and do webinars based around a particular topic.
So we might call it like the five step blueprint to online course marketing. And we would have an offer at the end. So we would get our affiliate to, to send a traffic. During this time to this webinar, and then obviously if anyone conveyed within those, you know, the 90 days that cookie window, then great.
You know, they would make, they would make a sale. But generally we would co-sale on that webinar. You know, we’ve done, don’t wanna give too many of that numbers away, but like hundreds of sales on like one webinar, like, which is, which is actually crazy when you think about it.[00:13:34] Mike Allton: That’s awesome. I’ve never done webinars and see, this is why I have you on
I’ve given affiliates as, you know, graphics, I’ve given them emails and social posts. I’ve, I’ve never considered creating them, giving them training, right. Yeah. And that sort of thing. So that’s awesome.[00:13:48] Paddy McGill: So actually, if I could also just quickly add on top, I think, and this is maybe something as well that a little bit more, like a little bit more advanced, but like having that industry.
Focused landing pages custom, obviously. And if you’ve got big time affiliates or big time influencers, you know, if you’ve got a guy like Mike, Mike Allton, who’s always, you know, doing the cool stuff, you know, you wanna give him episode landing page and give him his own URLs. So actually on top of that, if you do work with influencers, I recommend that they use their own domain slash and then your brand, because then they can make those changes quicker.
Then you create another page and then create another.[00:14:23] Mike Allton: I have done that with Agorapulse, and it works really, really well. I’ve got a cadre of like 40 or 50 influencers. I see Mitch Jackson’s watching on Twitter, uh, Mitch’s one. Hey Mitch, how you doing? Yeah, he said Great guest and topic, so thanks, Mitch.
Oh, thank you. Yeah. You know, and I’ll give him a custom landing page for two reasons. One, like you said, it’s, it’s a great. Way to personalize and individualize that experience, right? They have a URL that they can share with their audience and it’s got their name and their face and everything on that URL on that page, so their audience recognizes it.
And in my case too, I want my influencers to be able to offer a coupon. And our system is way too complicated because we have a credit card, free, free trial, so you can set up for a free trial without even to put in a credit card, which means there’s no place to put in a coupon. When you send ’em for a free trial, the coupon code isn’t entered until after the trial when you wanna subscribe to an account, which is like 30 days later.
So I give people a landing page that explains all that, cuz it’s a little hard to say all that if you’re just on a show[00:15:23] Paddy McGill: like I did. I’ve got a hack for you, Mike, that might do the trick here. So do you use anything like intercom in your app? Yes. Okay, so set up like a custom field. So if people are coming in with whatever it is, like referral equals, you know, Paddy Mc, whatever, it’s mm-hmm.
If someone comes with that identifier, then send a chat window or an overlay and say, Hey, just to let you know, did you know you’ve got access to a free trial that you can claim now? And then you can have that as like a message ready to go the moment they land in the page. I like that. I’m running that down right now.[00:15:56] Mike Allton: God do that. and my and and my ambassadors are gonna love it cuz that means we’re gonna convert more of them Exactly right from trial into pay and then they’re gonna get the commissions and that’s what it’s all about. So way quicker as well. Oh yeah. So if you’re just tuning in, we’re talking affiliate marking with Paddy, and he’s been making these fantastic points.
He says, first of all, start. Your business at your sales level, right? Don’t start building an affiliate program before you’ve got your sales process down. That’s important. Be able to sell the referral traffic that your ambassadors and affiliates send you, and then you can start to come up with a structure for your affiliate program.
He recommends probably a third year CAC, but you can take a look at that. Take a look at your industry standard, take a look at what your CAC is, and also pay attention to. Your competitors and see what they’re doing. You don’t have to fixate on them, but pay attention to what they’re doing and then create some great assets for everybody to use.
But one question ahead for you. As we’re building this program and we’re bringing in affiliates, do you recommend, or what do you recommend businesses look for when they’re considering these new affiliates? Do you vette affiliates in any particular way?
What do you recommend businesses look for when considering new affiliates?[00:16:54] Paddy McGill: Yeah, it’s essential. In fact, if, if you don’t do it, you’re, you are opening yourselves up for a lot of like spam, ppc, seo, competitive traffic against your own brands.
So I would always have any sort of type of application. It can just be as simple as a Google form. The platform I use, we have like Anbu application so that that’s all taken care of. But I usually, Ty, I typically ask something along the lines of obviously name, email, the web address, and if I don’t have it, Their social media handles, their list size or their audience size, and then how they’ve heard about us.
So right now I’ve done, I’ve been running some campaigns with restream through our affiliate tracking provider partner program tracking provider. And we’ve been doing things like a certain way. So they, if they’ve come from like a newsletter, I know they’ve come from a newsletter. If they’ve come via our application or like a general profile, I know that they’ve come from that.
So it’s very important to also find out where they actually found. Because if you’re finding out, for example, you know, if you’ve been running ads on Quora, for example, trying to recruit new affiliates and all of the successes come from there, then obviously double down. But it’s very important to do that, to vet and actually take the time to look at people’s profiles.
Unfortunately, this is the stuff that, you know, some parts of affiliate marketing are extremely scalable. Some parts. As scalable. Cause it requires that human care and attention that you just can’t really get anywhere else. You need someone to look at the program and really understand like, does this person’s brand or traffic or site and their audience, is it a really good fit for what we are about?
There’s nothing worse than having. Tens of thousands of affiliates or thousands of affiliates that aren’t a great fit for you. Not sending traffic away or may have even just sent one or two sales. It’s better to, for the sake of your own time, just to have maybe a even a small handful, a couple of hundred even don’t have to be that.
Driving a significant amount of traffic. And that’s my philosophy anyway. Some, I might, some people in like more the e-commerce world might disagree with me, but I know definitely when like SaaS, there’s a lot, there’s a lot of different types of affiliates out there. But yeah. I hope that answers your question[00:18:56] Mike Allton: a hundred percent spot on, because coming from the SaaS space, I had the exact same experience.
We had an affiliate program at Agorapulse that a predecessor basically just let it open. Anybody could apply, anybody could be an affiliate. Yeah. And as of course then in retrospect, it should have been obvious. But of course we got spammers and people who were running Google ads against our brand name and, and, and raking in the commissions.
And it was terrible. And we had to shut it. And then I recreated it or I created a new affiliate program. I call it a partner program. Cause it’s kind of a step up I think. Yeah, exactly. And the idea there is I do vet, like you said, you made a couple really great points that I’m gonna go back and re-listen to.
Cause I want to implement them. I say on the application cause it’s a form. This is only open to social media content creators. You have to be writing about social media to be able to talk about Agorapulse in an intelligent way. Yeah. Then make sure that we’re getting in front of the right audience.
Right. I look at the applications and they all have a, have to have a website, and I click on the website and I look and either they don’t have a blog or they have a got a blog and it’s about, you know, the most random things. I’m like, okay, that’s not a good fit, so I’m, I’m not gonna let ’em into the. This is why I have this show everybody paying.
I hope you’re paying attention because not only did Paddy answer my question, but in the midst of his answer, he dropped this little, little aside. Oh, by the way, I’m running ads on Quora to attract new affiliates and I was like, wait, what? , you’re running ads to attract affiliates. I love that idea.[00:20:28] Paddy McGill: Yeah.
Because it’s the highest, like think it’s the highest intent. Like especially when someone like Quora or even like Reddit and places like that, or just ads in general, like depending on, see where people go into search for those answers and questions. You’re finding people that are genuinely interested, and it could even be people that are searching, trying to learn more about social media or your products, for example.
And then you could run out, say, say, Hey, you know, you searched. Do you love us? Do you wanna make some money? Question mark.[00:20:55] Mike Allton: Wink. Yeah. , wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. . Exactly. Awesome. Carrie’s watching on LinkedIn. She said that sounds like a great idea. She was talking about one of your points earlier, and that’s good.
Uh, Mitch has a question. He says, so when you have a bad actor in quotes, come in as an affiliate, what steps do you take to protect yourself?[00:21:15] Paddy McGill: I think it’s important that you do, you know, on a regular basis, on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, that you always check the affiliates that you are working. In particular for over the fit.
Once they’re in your program for the first couple of weeks, just keep an eye on, especially if like you see site traffic levels starting to go up, then take like obviously take note at, and then go investigate where those links are being promoted. Now, depending on your tracking provider, that some places will let you actually see.
Where people are actually promoting that affiliate link. So you can go and do some, like some double back investigation, but if someone’s not playing by the rules, if someone said, no, no, I’m not promoting, you know, you guys via search, a lot of the tracking providers out there. So I’m just gonna just give, shout two of ’em out.
So Shareasale, they obviously, I use the Thinkific and I actually work for their parent company a win. Back in the UK they have like, they have brand verity built actually just quickly. Brand Verity is a really great tool to want to monitor like your, your paid search and you can keep a, and then your affiliates can also be included within those searches.
So they’ll send snapshots on a regular basis, on a random basis with your search terms. And then you can actually see if affiliates have been bidding on your name or on your brand. And if you find out they’ve been doing that, then you just go. Then you just simply for. , unless someone’s got an extremely compelling case and it’s unlikely, like my mind will be changed.
Usually it’s like one time you’re out, if it’s paid, if it’s the paid search stuff, it’s one time you’re out. If someone like maybe writes something that I’m not gonna say that you don’t agree with, but if they like categorically get something wrong, like if you, let’s say if you can go live across, like we’ve reached him, you can go live to fake plus social media sites and if someone writes, you can only go live to Facebook, then I’m gonna be like, like this needs to be.
This is not true. So yeah, that you have like one strike to get it fixed, and if not, then you’re out. So again, I might get a lot of pushback with this, but I think that’s the best way to read. The best way to deal with it is that old expression that keep someone an inch and they’ll take a mile.[00:23:08] Mike Allton: Yeah. And that’s exactly what we were running into with our old affiliate program at Agorapulse, cuz we’d reach out to those bad actors.
We saw through the metrics, we, you know, we, we had the, the evidence that they. Engaged in shitty practices and they deny it. And we’d spend weeks going back and forth Emeric, our CEO who has way better things to do, will be going back and forth in emails with these people. Yeah. And I was like, okay, that’s enough.
We, we can’t, we gotta[00:23:33] Paddy McGill: just shut it down. Shut it down. Just shut. Just shut it down one, one time. Shut it all down. Just say honestly when you say like, the money is being taken away and you’re not getting it back. Everything that’s impending, like pending stairs is getting declined. Like you’ll get people’s attention straight away.
Just say like, if you don’t respond 24 hours, you’re getting booed off and when they reply, you’re getting booed off. Simple as that. Yeah. Yeah. So this is hard talk. Hard talks. Mixes. Yeah.[00:23:59] Mike Allton: Hard affiliate talks right now have have those hard to heart, that tough love. And Mitch says, great advice. Thanks. So my next question for you Paddy, is you know what have been some of.
Worst affiliate program, mistakes or oversights that you’ve seen? Businesses that they really need to
What have been some of the worst affiliate program mistakes or oversights you’ve seen that businesses should avoid?[00:24:14] Paddy McGill: Yeah, just stay away from. Yeah. I f I, I like going back to what I said at the start, like people just starting their program way, way too early, way too early, and also seeing affiliates as the a hundred percent source of their traffic.
Working at an affiliate network, a win they have in the uk, they’re like the highest priced in terms of like signup fees, monthly fees. We would get people that would pre, cause we had such a great reputation, people would come into our, like, into our, our sales funnel. They’re like, please, we want to go onto your affiliate network.
And you’re like, so tell me more about your site. And they’re like, well, I get like maybe. 10, 20,000 visitors per month and I gonna get like, you know, point x percent conversion rate and it’s like, no, you knock, you guys are not ready. This is not gonna work considering like how much you’re gonna spend. But people were very insistent.
People just would tell you then anything to get themselves on there because they saw affiliates as this, like we’re saying at the start, this just great way to make lots of sales, but without a validated product, without a validated sales funnel to waste, it’s a complete waste of time. That’s the stuff that I see.
The most. And when I speak with people, I always just, that’s the first question I go to. Like, just tell me more about how you’re selling the product at the moment. And if it’s like, you know, I’m not really selling it, or yeah, if I’m not selling it or, or we’re still in the creation mode, then it’s not really meant to be.
Now there is a site caveat and exception to this, where if you are a digital product, Course creator, let’s say, right? For example, right? If you’re Amy Porterfield, Amy Porterfield for anyone who is listening is not in that space. She’s a very well known online course creator. She has a amazing affiliate program.
She’s definitely one of the best in terms of earnings. If she launched a new product today, you, you know that she would make sales. So that’s not necessarily like a problem, that she’s not, you know, that this particular product is not selling. You know that she’s underwear, she’s got sales from other products.
But if you’re a new brand, Then the thing that you need to imagine, it’s like, you know, is this product selling? Is there an actual, is there market demand for it? Like it’s going back to like the basics of setting up. Company. And that’s what people don’t do. People don’t, they don’t do that work first. And then the next, I get the next biggest mistake they made is that they don’t, either they don’t pay enough or they just think that they’ll just take a wild guess at what commissions or what comp they wanna pay people.
They’ll just say, uh, you know, uh, we’ll give ’em like 10% cyber based on like what that your professors could be offering, could be offering way more. You know, could you be paying. There’s people out there that pay like 50% commission. There’s some SaaS affiliate programs where you know, they’ll pay you like 200% commission on the first month of your sale, but then after that you’re not gonna get anything else, but you’re gonna get such a high bonus at the start.
Then obviously with that, you’ve gotta then understand what is like my refund. Period. What is like, you know, how long does it take for that sale to close, for example? So there’s some other things there we may, we can talk about today or or another time. But those are the things not paying enough and not, again, not having a product that’s already making money.
Sales brand.[00:27:09] Mike Allton: Yeah, I love, love the fact that both of those points kind of underscore. Basic business principles that I should know or we should be learning. Right? Which is, that’s nice. You know, like you’re talking about, you know, not paying enough. What that speaks to is a lack of research, a lack of thinking that I need to spend a little bit of time digging into this particular question, whether it’s how much I pay in affiliate, how much I charge for my product.
Cuz it’s the same basic issue, right? If I just. Put a price tag on a product. And I haven’t done any kind of market research. I haven’t looked at the competition. I don’t know what the demand is, what the audience interest is. It’s just a random price, you know, and I’m just rolling the dice to see if it works.
Same thing with affiliate commission. So that’s a terrific point, and I like how you were starting to go into what some other. SaaS affiliate programs are doing. Right cuz that’s the next question. So who, I’m gonna name names, who has the best B2B affiliate program that you’re aware of and why Is it the best?
Who has the best B2B affiliate program you’re aware of, and why?[00:28:08] Paddy McGill: Okay, so lot of people are gonna, people, I’m gonna say Thinkific. So I used to run it, but it’s not the case. I actually think of all the best PPE fit programs out there. The best one is, is ClickFunnels. Like, everyone’s gonna kill me for saying it, but I actually think ClickFunnels , it’s like no scammy call sale alert.
No, it’s not. It’s not case. What Russell and his team have been able to, they’ve been able to galvanize an enormous community of people that have. To a target customer that he wants to sell his product to, and he’s been able to incentivize them in such an amazing way. Like, you know, the dream car model you get the Two Comma Club, the Free Comma Club, all that stuff is such an amazing way of building up a program that incentivizes people to keep doing more.
You know? And on top of that, you’ve got a product that is, that obviously that does sell, got salespeople, obviously that does work. You’ve got educat. That’s, you know, that’s given to them, not just from like a product perspective, but you’ve got someone like Russell who’s then getting influencers and mentors and other successful affiliates to come and teach.
How to be an successful affiliate. So for me, I think they’re the key. They’re the key things that make an amazing affiliate program and ClickFunnels has nailed it. On top of that, there’s a couple other great ones on top. So if we’re talking more like general like holistic partner program, I would definitely say un bounce.
Uh, shout to my friend Ty, how you doing mate? Ty is and anchor run that program. Ty’s actually moved on. He’s over at Ally io, but. They have an amazing partner program. They do a lot of work with agencies and I think actually Mike, I dunno if you guys are connected, but you two should definitely get connected cause I think you both serve similar audience.
So un bounced, definitely one. Obviously Vinky thinks is pretty like if thinks is pretty good and they’ve been doing some great stuff with their influencers. So obviously I wanna be modest since, Hey Restream V Stream’s got an amazing program, so if you do have access nor to live streamers, please drop me a note and I’ll be happy to connect with.[00:30:05] Mike Allton: That’s terrific. And I was gonna mention, you know, one of the interesting programs that I was involved in, that’s actually. Stopped was with a video production company called Content Samurai, and then they renamed a vineyard. Oh yeah. And then they got bought by GoDaddy, I think. So they’ve actually stopped their affiliate program.
But what I loved originally, and I set this up a couple years ago, was they provided me with eBooks in a funnel. And the copy and everything. All I had to do was set up a drip email campaign that had that said to my audience, do you wanna learn how to SEO your YouTube videos? And so they gave me the email copy with the links, uh, my affiliate links, which sent the traffic to a landing page that they would just sign up for an ebook.
And then they had the. Funnel in place. This goes back to your original point, right? Being able to sell. Yeah. So I wasn’t just recommending the product and sending to a, a sales page. Yeah. I was directing my audience into their funnel and they were converting and I was getting, you know, monthly recurring commission.
So that was terrific and it’s the kind of thing I wanna replicate that’s.[00:31:05] Paddy McGill: Yeah, that’s like literally one of the, like one of the best ways to, if you’re any sort of business the, like the lead magnet swap is that maximum reward, lowest effort, obviously. Again, like this is why you’ve gotta have a sales funnel, or you’ve gotta at least have some content to share.
You have that. Then you can go and approach anyone basically, as long as there’s a match in your target. Then absolutely you should go and do like a lead magnet swap or just a, a push into your newsletter because it’s so like between, obviously doing like something like a webinar is way, way less effort, but you’re probably gonna get more reward from that.
That’s a great way to step and that as well, like automated webinars. Live webinars. There’s so many different ways that you can partner with people. I feel like I’ve only peeled back the very top layer of all of this, and I could chat all about like influencer affiliate marketing and how do all that stuff.
So maybe we can, we definitely get that on another, on another session, but I don’t say, yeah, that’s one of the best ways to do it.[00:32:02] Mike Allton: Cool. And so, and I have just the, the last question for you, cuz we just talked about something that frankly, I, I think most businesses aren’t doing with that lead mainten net swap, is there anything else that businesses should be doing with their affiliate programs?
What do you think more B2B business affiliate programs should be doing?[00:32:16] Paddy McGill: I would, uh, 100% go and look at the competition that currently have affiliate programs. And I think a lot of people definitely in SAS doesn’t get done enough. And if you’ve got an audience that. Leveraging influencers, like we all know, social media marketing. There’s lots of influencers, lots of people with a brand name, an audience that could potentially promote your product.
So I would look at your competitors, go onto somewhere like Aha, and then put in the, like the URL stringing. So if it’s like. Sorry for saying Hootsuite.com. We can bleep that out on the On the replay. That’s right. Ref equal ref equals 1, 2, 3, 4. You can just take it up to the ref part and then pop it into a refs, and then you could do a search for every single person that’s actually referring traffic to that particular brand or that particular business.
And then from there you can take that list out and then put ’em into, An email marketing tool. So you could use something like ana, you could use something like pasta. You could use, you could use Gmail if you want. Now, obviously if you’re gonna do outreach, couple of things, you’ve gotta make sure that you use some subdomains or some, you know, some domains that aren’t your main domains.
So like, you know, Agorapulse.com, for example, you don’t use that. Use Agorapulse.co or something along those lines, and make sure that you’re not gonna affect your deliverability of your emails, but then you can do some outreach to ’em to say, Hey, I’ve noticed you’ve been promoting X, Y, and Z. We’re huge fans of what you’re doing.
It’s key when you do outreach to, if it is, you’ve gotta do like the, the hard work of like researching them and making sure that, you know, you, you’re building a gen. There’s a genuine fit. If you just say, Hey, you promote something, come promote us. That’s, that might not do the trick. , but if you could show a genuine interest.
Now, the beauty of the two tools that I mentioned, shout out to Roone as well. They’ve got an amazing, amazing product. Uh, it’s from the team over at as well, actually like, uh mm-hmm far. And the team there, they put together like a great tool so you can actually insert dynamic personalization and it will do the suggestions based on recent tweets, recent comments and stuff like that.
So, It takes a lot of that hard work out, so I would definitely recommend doing that, reaching out to more of your influencers. Now, if you are a course creator, if you’re a digital entrepreneur and you’re trying to figure out the best ways to work to other people to partner with, you can do the exact same thing.
So go and look at the tools that you use on a regular basis to run your business. Find a URL string, put it into a hfs, and then you’ll get a list of all the other influencers, all the other people that are promoting. The same product that you use, and then all you need to do is then look, grab a spreadsheet.
Uh, I actually have a spreadsheet. I, this is not like a lead magnet person. I, I actually don’t even have a domain. If anyone actually wants to go look at my domain, it’s about influencer whitelisting. But that’s a whole, whole different color of fish. But you take this list, get a spreadsheet, and basically just say, uh, is this person’s audience so I match mine?
Yes. Have they promoted something else in the. Yes. How well do I know this person? Like, do you have like any sort of a, a commonality or a link to them? If you do, then great. And then how big are they? If they are like way bigger, like, you know, if you go and if I went and approach Tony Robbins, he’s not even gonna answer his message.
But if I find someone that’s a little bit higher or a little bit low in terms of audience size, then I can obviously leverage that to my own, my own benefit. So answer those questions and then go and reach out to the people that you have the best relationship with. Or where you have that commonality and then jump on, do a live stream.
For short plug, this is the only plug I’m gonna do, but Restream, we’ve just launched a brand new feature called Pairs. What it means is that you can go live simultaneously across your, your guests social media at the same time. So for me, as a partnership guy, it’s a great way for me to, you know, bring in other guests and then leverage their audience at the same time without the need of like swapping logins, swapping passwords, swapping sso, and.
So it’s a very effective way of doing that. So doing a webinar, doing a live stream, doing a lead magnet swap, find a gap in each other’s content, and then fill.[00:36:17] Mike Allton: I love that. And in fact, that’s exactly what we’re doing at Agorapulse. We have our Wednesday show Agency Accelerated hosted by Stephanie Liu, and each episode is with a partner, like last two weeks ago was Payman Tai from Visme.
You know, we streamed to their channels, we streamed our channels, we streamed to Stephanie’s channels, all the channels. I was really interested to see that feature from Restream, cuz we use Restream to distribute that stream out to multiple channels. And I have a technical question. It’s okay if you don’t know the.
I use Ecamm cause I’m under the producer for the Wednesday show as our studio, cuz I’ve got my stream deck and, and we’re doing a lot of, lot of fancy things and then we’d bounce the signal to Restream. Does that still work? Do you know?[00:36:57] Paddy McGill: So right now the possible it works with the studio, the cloud, the Restream Studio Studio feature.
It’s gonna be there. It’s gonna be there at some point. I know it’s definitely on the road to getting done. So hopefully I’m not. Cause a lot of problems by announcing this feature, but I’m pretty sure we’ve emailed our list or parts by list. So sorry, Anya, I’m just gonna Mike. I’ll be coming to get a job after this.
That’s right. . That’s right .[00:37:23] Mike Allton: No, it’s great. Yeah, we love, we love Restream. I’m, I’m glad you brought it up cuz like I said, we use it, it’s not every Wednesday, it’s about every other Wednesday that we go live. So tomorrow it’s . We have Raphael from Thinkific talking about their agency partner program.
Tomorrow. And I was gonna say, I loved your hack earlier about using hrefs and Respond and I’ve got Fazah from Respond doing a lunch and learn for me next month. So I’m gonna make sure he covers that in more detail. Cause that is a terrific way to take a look at what other affiliates are doing, how they’re talking about your competition, to discover and find those affiliates and potentially reach out to them.
It’s not a good reason to do your own custom landing pages cuz then your competition can’t find your affiliates.[00:38:07] Paddy McGill: Yeah. And without like taking up too much more of your time, like I’ve been obviously looking at like places that for other like live streamers and other creators, these scripts. They’ve just launched their affiliate program.
But what they were doing, they have, I think it’s like, you know, one of those like product board or like voting systems where it’s like, you know, do you want a, do you want an affiliate program? And everyone’s obviously Outvoting. Yes, yes, yes. Cause it’s such a great app. On the left hand side, when I went and looked in about the, I actually done a search.
I was like, do I have an affiliate program? Let’s try and get the link. They didn’t have it, but I saw like there was a feature board request. I was like, okay, I’m gonna go have a look. Have a look on the left hand side. You’ve got a list of every single person that voted. I was like this, this is easy. I just copied.
Copied and then, oh my gosh, they put ’em into a, That re sequence. So I’m making it seem like it’s a piece of cake. It’s not that part is easy. Getting them to obviously come on and promote and be like a good client. It’s, uh, a good partner can take time, but little hacks like that do go really long way.
Cause again, you’re just trying to find that mutually compatible audience. One last tip for anyone that’s, that wants to do this. I’m sorry. Like, I’m just delivering some, a couple more like last.[00:39:14] Mike Allton: Do not apologize for dropping these knowledge bombs and, and delivering so much value. Continue. [00:39:20] Paddy McGill: So I think I might mention this actually on Stephanie Liu’s live little while ago, but I was working with, uh, I was working with a company called Uscreen who’s actually Payman’s brother PJ Tai. [00:39:30] Mike Allton: I didn’t know they were brothers. Yeah, I know that. I didn’t know that explained so much. Oh my gosh. [00:39:34] Paddy McGill: They look exactly the same. , sorry, I don’t say, but they do, they look, they look great. PJ’s an amazing, like him and his, their product is amazing. So we were talking with, I was doing some consulting with them a little while ago.
People were talking with, they had like obviously health and fitness, right? Help. They do online apps, online courses. It’s a really good, it’s a really good fit for health and fitness during Covid. The big problem actually that people had when they were trying to transition from like a gym to an online component, there’s a, there’s actually a big issue that I didn’t know about until I was doing the research.
Yeah, the key here, research, the health and fitness professionals, when they take their courses online, they can actually be liable for injuries if they teach these people these classes. I was like, wow, okay. That’s a big problem, right? You don’t, you don’t know. And obviously I know America is the land of the free and litigation, so you know, you wanna make sure that you’ve got all your bases covered.
So I went on some research into insurance companies for fitness. Professionals. And I was like, okay, so let’s have a quick, let’s have a, a chat. And we found one. Yogi, I think top of my head be Yogi. So approached them, said, Hey, we have an audience of health and fitness people that obviously will definitely be interested in learning about insurance, protecting their business, especially during our time like Covid.
You have obviously access to a lot of different health and fitness professionals that. Definitely wanna know how to create an online course at the moment. We got on the phone, spoke with some of the guys there and cause the problem we have is that we don’t have, like all of our content is boring, it’s just about insurance
So what else can we do to add value to our audience? So then we then put together like training. We put together like a one page room and stuff. And then we dropped it out to him and then it went gangbusters. Cause it was again, the perfect match of audience. The perfect match of content. And delivery made sense because we had an established sales funnel, we had an established process, and you know, there it is insurance, there it is, the least sexy areas.
So you can find partners in like the most wild of places as long as there’s a, a match with what your audience needs are. So if you’re thinking about, it’s like think of yourself if your course code, for example, write down everything that you use from like physical, mental, work related, everything that you use to like do your day.
And then try and like link that out to other brands or businesses or service. So, and again, it could be as simple as, you know, if I’m a social media creator, what software do I use? I use Agorapulse. I’d use, maybe use Canva. I maybe use some other things. But then who else uses Canva? It could be associations for realtors or something like that.
Like, so then you would approach an association for a realtor and say, I’m gonna show you how to basically 10 x your time, or basically reduce your, you know, reduce your social media time by 10 x by simply scheduling your post using Agorapulse. And let me show you how you can do that. Genuine need piece of content, great sales funnel magic happens, like associations is a great place to do it as well because they have to justify their monthly dues and their monthly fees to their members by creating fresh content on a regular basis.
And you can provide somebody that’s extreme value, like a genuine value to them. Yeah, you can either pay a small fee to obviously get on that list or you can if you build up a good relationship with them and deliver value. You can usually get it for free. Like I had some when I was with you, screen saw there, it, those are great relationships with associations and trade shows and stuff.
Uh, it worked out really well. Sorry, sorry, PJ. I’ve given away all the, the, the secrets like, Kate’s taking better care of it now, but yeah,[00:43:05] Mike Allton: Kate’s fantastic. Absolutely. Uh, in fact I need to reach out to her cuz I have some ideas of something we may do. To create a Roku channel. For those of you who are not familiar with you screen, they give you that O T T broadcast capability.
I love the things that you’re talking about, building relationships and and leveraging them. And the kind of underlying truth that you were just hinting at was businesses need to talk to their audience and find out what are they struggling with, what are they actually need. That’s where this whole agency accelerated series came out of was we have a group of over a thousand agency owners.
It’s a private community of Agorapulse users, right? Who are agency owners. And we asked them when they joined the community, what are you struggling with the most, right? And one of the number one things that they kept coming up with was how to make more money, how to drive more revenue, how to diversify our revenue streams.
So we bring in Payman from Visme, say, Hey, how do we add revenue stream in the form of. Branding experiences and design. Right. Tomorrow it’s, yeah. How do we add another revenue stream by supporting course creators there? We’re diversifying our audience and we’re adding additional services. It’s so important to, to have that conversation and to have that information to guide you.
That’s terrific. Real quick, I had a question from Mitch Jackson. He said, what service do you recommend to set up your own affiliate program?
Recommended Affiliate Program Tools[00:44:22] Paddy McGill: Great question. So I think it’s gonna come down to your, a couple of things, right? The budget, your expectations of what you want from an affiliate program or affiliate tracking provider.
I don’t wanna, I wanna be obviously respectful your time, right? But if you are, if you’re happy for me to keep going, I don’t mind explaining this, but you’ll have, yeah, yeah, we’ve got a couple. Take your time. Amazing. You have like tracking providers where it’s the very simple, it can track the sale. It gives them an affiliate link.
It gives them a dashboard to go in and monitor what they’re doing. Then you have something like an affiliate network where they have essentially a network of affiliates that could apply to join your program. That could be of interest to you and start promoting what you do. So if I’m assuming you may like a, a content creator or a coach or speaker or an ortho, if that’s the case, I would say look at, if you’ve got WordPress, something like Affiliate WP, very flexible, very powerful tool to actually start creating an affiliate program from.
And it’s very like, it’s very cheap, ridiculously cheap. I mean, so like most WordPress plugs now, You can use that if you want to use something that’s a bit more powerful if you are a course creator. For example, there’s a couple out there, so you’ve got like Taper Fitia, of course creators. That’s a good one.
Um, you could also use Link Mink, which is actually run by the team over at Convert Kit. There’s essentially quite a fewers. There’s another one that’s owned by the, like run by the team over at Podium, which is like the online course platform. It’s actually the one that get reward for. There you go. Gotta remember it.
Now. These are all like low cost. Red’s V feature, powerful affiliate tracking providers. Now, if you want to go like the full fat version, what I use, cause I’m a pretty, pretty fat guy, was mainstream, uh, fe plump is I to call myself any South Park fan. The, I’d like to use something called Partner Stack. For me it’s the, it’s probably the best.
It’s probably the best cause it lets me run a referral program. It lets me run a partner program, an affiliate program. I can do custom groups. It automates all of my messaging, but it comes at a way higher price than 50 bucks a month over. We’re talking. Thousands, but obviously depending on your needs.
But if you have a well established business, if you’re in SaaS, I highly recommend Partner Stack. If you’re in SaaS, like there’s, there’s literally no other tool that you should use for SaaS. It should be partner Stack.[00:46:34] Mike Allton: For those of you listening on the podcast, I will have all the links that Paddy just name dropped in the show.
Oh my affiliate links . Okay. All of my affiliate links for Partner Stack . That’s terrific. And again, this is exactly why I have this show cuz we’re using First Promoter. I don’t know if it’s the best. That’s actually, it’s a good option. Is it?[00:46:52] Paddy McGill: It’s it’s a, it’s a good tool. It’s a really good tool. In fact, I actually looked at First Promoter and Partner stack when I was doing the assessment for, for Restream. The reason, and I know that this will be built at some point, uh, Virgil, isn’t it? I think the guy’s called, he hasn’t, he hasn’t personally, but I’ve chat to, I chat to him a lot on the online chat, so I’m just like that ask very specific questions about his business product.
So, hi Virgil is me. It’s, and I asked him like, you know, can you do like the email follow up, the email communication? Is that done within First promoter? And it’s not? For me, the reason why I love Partner Stack so much is because it has all of my email sequences built into the product. So when someone gets onboarded, they get sent an email with all the stuff to get going.
If they’ve not driven any clicks in seven days, they get an email reminder. If they’ve made their third sale, they get basically a message from me. It’s all automated. And then depending on like if they hit certain sales targets, It will automatically increase their sales sentiment, notification. Lots of cool stuff like that.
That’s the, unfortunately, that’s the S H I T. That takes like way too long. If you don’t have that automation in place, obviously if you’ve got an email service provider most companies do have, then you can link it up to that. But I would, again, that’s still a lot of works, a lot of effort. And then, you know, work, then you’re working with your email team, which can definitely have as challenge.
I’m not saying that I haven’t reached him, actually. We have an amazing email team, but I’ve had my challenges in the past with others, that’s for sure.[00:48:24] Mike Allton: Yeah, yeah. No, I hear ya. Yeah, and I obviously we need to have a whole nother show just to dig into some of that detail, but, uh, hey, this is, yeah, this has been, Fantastic.
You’ve been terrific guest and I wanna thank you sincerely. You’re welcome, mate. Thank you for letting us your time, your insights into partnerships. I can’t wait to take all of your amazing suggestions and apply them to our affiliate program at Agorapulse. Now, for those listening and watching, what’s the best way to reach out to you directly if they have questions?[00:48:51] Paddy McGill: Right. If you’ve got questions, you can raise some, just email me, Paddy partner.com. But if you’re actually interested in. The affiliate program over at Restream as well. Paddy dot McGill, restream io just messaged me on live. It doesn’t matter. , I’m happy. Happy to oblige. [00:49:06] Mike Allton: Awesome. Thank you so much and that my friends is all we have for today.
Don’t forget to follow me on LinkedIn if we aren’t already connected because coming up will be Nicole Ponze from SemRush, followed by Rob Walch from Libsyn and Katie Fawkes from EAM Network. And, and if you are watching the replay or listening to the podcast, don’t hesitate to comment or reach out if you’ve got question.
Till next time. See ya.